[Victoria II] Marstöchter

[Saphir]

Das Werk "Unglaubliche Geschichten" eines sonst nicht überlieferten Autoren namens Palaiphatos (möglicherweise ein Pseudonym) stammt aus dem vierten oder dritten vorchristlichen Jahrhundert und bemüht sich darum, die in den Mythen behandelte Geschichten logisch zu erklären.

Da gibt es etwa die Sphinx.

About the Cadmeian Sphinx it is said that there was a beast with the body of a dog, the head and face of a girl, the wings of a bird, and a human voice. She used to sit on Mt. Phikion and sing to each citizen a riddle. She killed whoever was unable to solve the riddle. When Oedipus solved the riddle, he threw her down and killed her. The account is faithless and weak. No such form can exist, while eating those unable to solve a riddle is childish, and the Cadmeians not being able to shoot the beast with arrows, but instead to watch their citizens being eaten up as enemies, is silly. So the truth is as follows: Cadmus had an Amazonian wife whose name was Sphinx. He came to Thebes, killed Drakon and took the kingdom. Afterwards he took the sister of Drakon, whose name was Harmonia. Sphinx felt that he was going to marry the other woman, so she persuaded many of the citizens to come away with her. They seized most of the money, and the swift-footed hound that Cadmus brought, and took them to Mt. Phikion. There she waged war on Cadmus, setting ambushes at appropriate moments and tearing to pieces those she killed. The Cadmeians called the ambush riddle. It was common talk among the citizens that The savage Sphinx tears us to pieces having set a riddle, and sits upon a mountain. No one was able to discover the riddle, from it being impossible to fight openly. For she doesn't run but flies, and is dog and woman, so swift-footed she is. Cadmus proclaims that he will give lots of money to whoever kills Sphinx. So Oedipus comes, a Corinthian man good at military things, with a swift horse. He made a band of the Cadmeians and they went out at night and ambushed her. He found the riddle, i.e. the ambush, and killed Sphinx. After this happened, the rest was mythologized.

Kurzum: Um die Geschichte mit der Sphinx irgendwie zu erklären, erfindet er eine Amazone namens Sphinx, die aus Furcht davor, von einer anderen Frau verdrängt zu werden, eine Gruppe um sich schart und einen Guerilla-Krieg führt.
... Hilfe, das führt mich zu einem ganz neuen Problem: Ich kann Amazonename und Geschichte aufnehmen, aber sollte ich es wirklich tun?

Der Text selbst bleibt nicht konsequent.

This is said about the Amazons, that they weren't fighting women but barbarian men. They wore chitons reaching their feet, just like the Thracian women; they put up their hair in a headband; they shaved their beards like the Pateriates by the Xithos, and for this reason they were called women by their enemies. The Amazons as a race were good at fighting. It is unlikely there ever was an army of women, not now or any other time.

Das ist ebenfalls eine ungewöhnliche Darstellung, aber es ist eine antike Darstellung. Ich werde sie einreihen und vormerken, damit ich sie möglicherweise an einer passenden Stelle einbauen kann.

[Saphir]

Der römische Dichter Publius Ovidius Naso wirkte um die Zeitenwende und bearbeitete dabei ein breites Feld. Er begann mit einem Ratgeber über die Liebeskunst,...
... deren zweiter Band mit diesen Zeilen schließt.

I’ve given you weapons: Vulcan gave Achilles his:
excel with the gifts you’re given, as he excelled.
But whoever overcomes an Amazon with my sword,
write on the spoils ‘Ovid was my master.’
Behold, you tender girls ask for rules for yourselves:
well yours then will be the next task for my pen!

Sein nun an Frauen gerichteter dritte Band öffnet mit diesen Zeilen.

I’ve given the Greeks arms, against Amazons: arms remain,
to give to you Penthesilea, and your Amazon troop.
Go equal to the fight: let them win, those who are favoured
by Venus, and her Boy, who flies through all the world.
It’s not fair for armed men to battle with *unbekleidete Menschen weiblichen Geschlechts*:
that would be shameful, men, even if you win.

So nutzt er für den Umgang der Geschlechter ein heroisierendes Bild kämpfender Helden. Sein Amazonenbild wechselt dabei leicht, bezeichnet er doch damit zunächst eine zu überwindende und zu zähmende Gegnerin, nur um diese in Form von Penthesilea zum bloßen weiblichen Pendant zum männlichen Heros zu erklären - oder anders ausgedrückt: Wenn er dem Bild treu bliebe, dann würde die "Bewaffnung der Amazonen" dazu führen, dass die Amazone unüberwunden und keusch bleibt.
Ovid nutzt also den Amazonenmythos - besonders in der Episode rund um Achill und Penthesilea - für dessen Verbindung aus Erotik und Kampf, als Gegengesellschaft im Spannungsverhältnis zur "normalen" Welt.

Was ich derweil bei den Metamorphosen finde, wirkt konkreter.

And Elis knows their labor, and the waves of Stymphalus, and the Parthenian woods. For this the prowess of these hands secured the Amazonian girdle wrought of gold; and did my strong arms, gather all in vain the fruit when guarded by the dragon's eyes.

Ah, Herkules.
Schließlich schrieb er in seiner Spätphase aus dem Exil am Schwarzen Meer Briefe. Einer davon geht an seine Gattin.

The brave have often been inspired by the trumpets,
and the general’s words urge on troops fighting hard.
Your virtue is known and established for all time:
don’t let your courage be less than your virtue.
You don’t have to raise an Amazon’s battle-axe for me,
or carry a curved shield on your feeble arm.
A god’s to be entreated, not that he befriend me,
but to be less angry with me than before.

Er bittet sie also, stark zu sein, und erklärt dann, nicht von ihr zu verlangen, zu einer Amazone zu werden. Er brauche weder die amazonentypische Axt, noch deren übliches Schild.

Einem Herrn namens Albinovanus beschreibt er die Flüsse seines kleinasischen Exilorts.

Here the Lycus, Sagaris, Penius, Hypanes, and Cales,
all enter, the Halys writhing, full of whirlpools,
raging Parthenius, Cynapses rolling boulders,
sliding on, Tyras, fastest of streams, and you,
Thermodon, known to the Amazon war-bands,
and you, Phasis, once sought by the Greek heroes,
Borysthenes and clearest Dyrapses, Melanthus
silently completing its gentle course. And the Don
that separates two continents, Asia and Europe,
and innumerable others, Danube mightiest of all,
that refuses, Nile, to yield in power even to you.

Er assoziiert also explizit nur den Thermodon mit Amazonen.

Das bringt zwar alles den Mod nicht weiter, aber ich finde es interessant.

[Saphir]

Der römische Autor Publius Papinius Statius lebte im Rom des ersten nachchristlichen Jahrhunderts und hinterließ drei große Werke: eine Sammlung von Gelegenheitsgedichten, eine Bearbeitung der griechischen Sage der "Sieben gegen Theben" und einen unvollendeten Epos über Achilles. Sie enthalten alle Amazonenspuren.

Das erste Gedicht des fünften Bandes der "Silvae" soll Flavius Abascantus hinsichtlich dem Tod seiner Gattin Priscilla trösten, und diese bittet ihm darin, Domitian treu zu bleiben.
Der Text selbst steht mir nur auf Latein zur Verfügung.

parva loquor. tecum gelidas comes illa per arctos
Sarmaticasque hiemes Histrumque et pallida Rheni
frigora, tecum omnes animo durata per aestus
et, si castra darent, vellet gestare pharetras,
vellet Amazonia latus intercludere pelta;
dum te pulverea bellorum nube videret
Caesarei prope fulmen equi divinaque tela
vibrantem et magnae sparsum sudoribus hastae.

Google sagt:
Ich spreche Kleinigkeiten. Sie begleitet dich durch die eisige Arktis
die sarmatischen Winter im Histrum und am blassen Rhein
die Kälte, mit dir dein ganzes Herz, das durch das heiße Wetter verhärtet ist
und wenn sie lagern würden, würde er bereit sein, ihre Köcher zu tragen,
und Amazonia würde seine Flanke vom Schild abschneiden lassen;
als er dich in der staubigen Wolke der Kriege sah
Caesar war dem Donnerkeil des Pferdes und den göttlichen Waffen nahe
das Zittern und der Schweiß, der sich auf dem großen Speer verteilte.

Klingt für mich so, als wären Amazonen hier nur symbolisch gemeint und als würde auf die Form ihrer Schilde angespielt.

Die "Thebais" liegt mir bei ToposText auf Englisch vor.
Bei der ersten Nennung echauffiert sich ein Herr im Sinne eines "Lieber wäre ich am Ende der Welt als dass...".

Rather, O Bacchus, take and set me among the eternal frosts, beyond Caucasus that rings with the war-cry of the Amazons, than that I should tell the horrors of our rulers and their unnatural brood.

Hier leben die Amazonen also im als kalt beschriebenen Kaukasus.
Beim zweiten Mal in diesem Text betet die Nymphe Arkadia zu der Göttin Diana/Artemis.

Then standing at the threshold of the goddess she prays thus, to no avail: Maiden Queen of the forests, whose ungentle standards and ruthless warfare I follow, scorning my sex, in no Grecian manner — nor are the barbarous-fashioned Colchians or troops of Amazons more truly thy votaries — if I have never joined revelling bands or the wanton nightly sport,

Sie schreibt den Amazonen also eine große Nähe zu Artemis und ihren Idealen zu. Ihr Text deutet außerdem an, worin sie diese Ideale sieht: Wilde Kriegsführung, Verachtung des eigenen (weiblichen) Geschlechts, Enthaltsamkeit/Jungfräulichkeit und Leben in der Wildnis. (Letzteres liegt etwas außerhalb der von mir zitierten Stelle.) Das klingt schon sehr nach der Camilla seines Zeitgenossen und Mit-Römers Vergil.

Die letzte Stelle stammt aus einer an Athen gerichteten Rede:

Thou also, for so Fame hath taught us of thy noble deeds, didst not give Sinis and the unutterable Cercyon to cruel monsters, and wert willing to let fierce Sciron burn. I ween too that Tanais smoked with Amazonian pyres, whence thou hast brought this host: deem then this triumph also worthy of thee.

Der lateinische Text meint mit "host" Waffen: Ich kann aber schlicht nicht deuten, ob in Tanais (Asow oder Don) Amazonengräber rauchen, weil a.) Athen eine Expedition dorthin unternahm und anschließend zum Triumph heimkehrt oder b.) die Amazonenexpedition nach Athen scheiterte und Gefallene der Expedition in ihrer Heimat bestattet werden. b.) würde besser zum üblichen Amazonenbild passen, a.) zu diesem Text...

So bleibt noch die "Achilleis".
Die erste Erwähnung stammt aus jener Episode, in der Achills Mutter Thetis ihren Sohn als Mädchen verkleidet, um ihm das Schicksal eines Tods vor Troja zu ersparen.

“Here, O king, “ she says, “I present to thee the sister of my Achilles – seest thou not how proud her glance and like her brother’s? – so high her spirit, she begged for arms and a bow to carry on her shoulders, and like an Amazon to spurn the thought of wedlock.

Für sie verschmähen also Amazonen den Gedanken an Ehe; erstaunlicherweise assoziiert sie diese nicht explizit mit dem Wunsch, Waffen zu tragen.
Odysseus sucht diesen Ort auf, und die Frauen, unter denen sich Achill versteckt, nehmen am Bankett teil.

Already the noise of princely trains fills the palace, and the guests are reclining on gold-embroidered couches, when at their sire’s command his daughters and their chaste companions join the banquet; they approach, like unto Amazons on the Maeotid shore, when, having made plunder of Scythian homesteads and captured strongholds of the Getae, they lay aside their arms and feast.

Amazonen leben also am Asowschen Meer, überfallen skythische Heimstätten, erobern getische Festungen und legen zum Feiern die Waffen ab.

Schließlich tanzen Frauen (und Achill).

Then together they raise and lower their wands, and complicate their steps, now in such fashion as the Curetes and devout Samothracians use, now turning to face each other in the Amazonian comb, now in the ring wherein the Delian sets the Laconian girls a-dancing, and whirls them shouting her praises into her own Amyclae.

Es existiert also der Tanzschritt/Tanz/Motiv des "Amazonischen Kamms", bei dem Tänzerinnen einander anblicken.

Daraus lässt sich einiges für den Mod rausholen.
* Statius assoziiert Amazonen mit dem Kaukasus, dem Don und dem Asowschen Meer. Von dort aus terrorisieren sie Skythen und Geten, zogen sich aber eine Niederlage gegen die Athener zu.
* Das ehelose Leben ist Amazonen wichtig. Sie setzen außerdem auf Brandbestattung.
* Sie gehören zu den Anhängern der Göttin Diana/Artemis und übernehmen deren wilde Kriegsführung, "unweibliches" Leben, Wildnis, Jungfräulichkeit und Enthaltsamkeit.
* Es gibt eine Tanzfigur des "Amazonen-Kamms".

[Saphir]

Unter dem Pseudonym "Dictys Cretensis" entstand im vierten Jahrhundert ein lateinischer Roman über den trojanischen Krieg, der auf einem verlorenen griechischen Text aus dem ersten oder zweiten Jahrhundert fußte.

Dies führt zu einer bekannten Amazone, die spannenderweise direkt nach dem Tod des Patroklos ihre erste Erwähnung erfährt, statt nach jenem Hektors.

After a few days news was suddenly brought that Hector and a few other men had set out to meet Penthesilea, the queen of the Amazons. Why she was coming to Priam's aid, whether for money or simply because of her love of war, was uncertain; her race, being naturally warlike, was always conquering the neighboring peoples and carrying the Amazon standards far and wide.

Dessen Schicksal bleibt noch vor deren Ankunft erhalten.

Many of the Trojans were losing all hope. They thought that, with the coming of night, the Greeks, elated at the death of Hector, would make an attack against the walls and take the city by storm. Some of them believed that the army which Penthesilea had brought to aid Priam was now joined with Achilles; everything was adverse and hostile, all their power was broken and destroyed. They had no hope of safety, for Hector was dead.

Die eigentliche Episode vollzieht sich in zwei Abschnitten:

During the funeral Penthesilea (whom we have mentioned above) arrived. She brought a huge army of Amazons and other neighbouring peoples. On being informed of Hector's death, she was very upset and desired to go home. But Alexander gave her much gold and silver, and finally prevailed upon her to stay. Several days later she drew up her forces and made an attack, without any help from the Trojans, so great was her trust in her people. She arranged the archers on the right flank, the foot soldiers on the left, and the cavalry, to which she herself belonged, in the center. Our men were drawn up to meet her, with Menelaus, Ulysses, Meriones, and Teucer against the archers, the two Ajaxes, Diomedes, Agamemnon, Tlepolemus, Ascalaphus, and Ialmenus against the foot soldiers, and Achilles, along with the others, against the cavalry. Thus the two armies, having drawn up their forces, joined battle. The queen slaughtered many, using her bow; as did Teucer for us. Meanwhile the Ajaxes were leading the foot soldiers; advancing with their shields before them and pushing back any who got in their way, they wreaked general havoc; no one, it seemed, could stop them from wiping the enemy out.

Achilles found Penthesilea among the cavalry and, hurling his spear, hit the mark. Then — no trouble now that she was wounded — he seized her by the hair and pulled her off her horse. Her followers, seeing her fallen, became disheartened and took to flight. We pursued and cut down those who were unable to reach the gates before they closed; nevertheless, we abstained from touching the women because of their sex. Then we returned, all of us victors, our enemies slain. Finding Penthesilea still half-alive, we marveled at her brazen boldness. Almost immediately a meeting was held to determine her fate, and it was decided to throw her, while still alive enough to have feeling, either into the river to drown or out for the dogs to tear apart, for she had transgressed the bounds of nature and her sex. Achilles favored just letting her die and then giving her burial. Diomedes, however, prevailed: going around, he asked everyone what to do and won a unanimous vote in favor of drowning. Accordingly, dragging her by the feet, he dumped her into the Scamander. It goes without saying that this was a very cruel and barbarous act. But thus the queen of the Amazons having lost the forces she had brought to aid Priam, died in a way that befitted her foolhardy character.

Mir springt ins Auge, dass in dieser Version der Episode zum einen die Erotik fehlt, zum anderen aber auch den Amazonen die "Männergleichheit" abgesprochen wird: Hier handelt es sich explizit um ungehörige, sich "gegen die Natur versündigende" Frauen, und ihre Königin wird wie eine Verbrecherin hingerichtet.
Für den Mod lassen sich folgende Dinge greifen:
* Die Amazonen besitzen eine "Natur-Kriegslüsternheit" und erobern immerzu ihre Nachbarn.
* Penthesilea erscheint mit einer größeren Armee, zu der auch Truppen der Nachbarn gehören.
* Penthesileas Leiche wird in den Skamander geworfen.

[Saphir]

Laut dem Wikipedia-Artikel lässt sich der Trojaroman des Autors mit dem Pseudonym "Dares, der Phrygier" förmlich als Gegenentwurf zum "Kreter Dictys" lesen. Der lateinische Text entstand im fünften Jahrhundert und geht wahrscheinlich auf ein verlorenes griechisches Original zurück.

Hier liest sich die Penthesilea-Episode gänzlich anders.

The next day, Agamemnon began to form up his army in front of the gates and
challenged the Trojans to come out and fight. Priam stayed where he was, fortified the city, and
waited for Penthesilea to arrive with her Amazons. When Penthesilea had arrived, she led her
army against that of Agamemnon. There was a huge battle. The fighting lasted for several days.
The Greeks were overwhelmed and fled back to their camp. Diomedes barely stopped her from
setting fire to the ships and destroying the entire Greek army. When the battle was over,
Agamemnon stayed inside the camp. Penthesilea came back each day, slaughtered many Greeks
and provoked them. Agamemnon, following the advice of his council, fortified the camp,
strengthened the guard, and refused to go to battle until Menelaus came back. Menelaus went
to Scyros and gave Neoptolemus the weapons of his father, Achilles. Neoptolemus accepted
them, travelled to the Greek camp, and wept at his father’s tomb. Penthesilea, following her
usual routine, formed up her army and advanced as far as the Greek encampments.
Neoptolemus took command of the Myrmidons and opposed her with his troops. Agamemnon
also prepared his forces. Both armies clashed. Neoptolemus caused a great massacre.
Penthesilea entered the battle and bravely defended herself. Both sides fought fiercely for
several days. Many were killed. Penthesilea wounded Neoptolemus. But, despite his wound, he
slaughtered Penthesilea, queen of the Amazons. This caused all of the Trojans to flee. Defeated,
they retreated to their city. The Greek troops surrounded the walls so that the Trojans could not
get out.

In dieser Version kommt also erst Achills Sohn nach dem Tod seines Vaters die Ehre zu, Penthesilea zu erlegen, und sie lebt länger als nur einen Tag. Davon abgesehen erinnert das Geschehen eher an die "Posthomerica".
Leider beschränkt sich der Text auf solch eine reine Faktenaufreihung, dass ich abgesehen von der höchst ungewöhnlichen Identität der Sieger nichts herausfischen kann.

[Saphir]

Von dem christlichen Autor syrischer Herkunft Tatian, der im zweiten nachchristlichen Jahrhundert lebte, blieb eine Streitschrift gegen die griechische Kultur erhalten, die dieses Kleinod aufweist.

Is it not absurd that Nestor,82 who was slow at cutting his horses' reins owing to his weak and sluggish old age, is, according to you, to be admired for attempting to rival the young men in fighting, while you deride those among us who struggle against old age and occupy themselves with the things pertaining to God? Who would not laugh when you tell us that the Amazons, and Semiramis, and certain other warlike women existed, while you cast reproaches on our maidens? Achilles was a youth, yet is believed to have been very magnanimous; and Neoptolemus was younger, but strong; Philoctetes was weak, but the divinity had need of him against Troy.

In diesem Kapitel proklamiert und verteidigt der Autor die Inklusivität der christlichen Gemeinschaft, die alle Menschen aufnimmt, die der Botschaft Interesse und Respekt entgegen bringen. Sein Argument lautet also in dem Zusammenhang: "Wie könnt ihr behaupten, dass manche Menschengruppen grundsätzlich besser sind als andere, wenn ihr doch anerkennt, dass es unter den Frauen strahlende wie die Amazonen gab?"...
... wobei ich es spannend finde, wie er "eure herausragende Frauen vs. unsere Frauen" füllt: Semiramis wird mit Babylon assoziiert, Amazonen meist mit Kleinasien, dem Kaukasus oder dem Asowschen Meer - beide gehören zum griechischen Kulturraum (mit heidnischen Assoziationen), sind jedoch keine Griechen.

[Saphir]

Der christliche Autor Clemens von Alexandria wirkte im zweiten und dritten nachchristlichen Jahrhundert.

In seiner Mahnrede an die Heiden, im Kapitel "Die Absurdität und Schande der Idole zur Anbetung von Götter" heißt es:

I know fire to be capable of exposing and curing superstition. If thou art willing to abandon this folly, the element of fire shall light thy way. This same fire burned the temple in Argos, with Chrysis the priestess; and that of Artemis in Ephesus the second time after the Amazons.

Er wiederholt also die bei Eusebius und Hieronymus getätigte Behauptung, dass Amazonen den (Vorgänger-)Tempel von Ephesos niederbrannten.

In seinem Buch "Verschiedenes" (wörtlich: Flickwerk), im ersten Buch und im Abschnitt "Das Alter der jüdischen Institutionen und Gesetze liegt weit über dem der griechischen Philosophie" zählt er:

From this to Theseus and the Minotaur, thirty-two years; then to the seven at Thebes, ten years. And to the Olympic contest, which Hercules instituted in honour of Pelops, three years; and to the expedition of the Amazons against Athens, and the rape of Helen by Theseus, nine years. From this to the deification of Hercules, eleven years; then to the rape of Helen by Alexander, four years. From the taking of Troy to the descent of Æneas and the founding of Lavinium, ten years;

Bei "Alexander" handelt es sich hier (wie auch vor drei Texten) um den Trojaner "Paris". Er sieht also den Überfall der Amazonen auf Athen fünfzehn Jahre vor der Ursache für den trojanischen Krieg (und unterschlägt in der weiteren Aufzählung jene mindestens zehn Jahre zwischen Ursache und Fall der Stadt).

Im fünften Buch dieses Werks betont er im Kapitel "Männer wie Frauen und Sklaven wie Freie können die Märtyrerkrone erringen" ebenfalls die Inklusivität.

Further, manliness is to be assumed in order to produce confidence and forbearance, so as “to him that strikes on the one cheek, to give to him the other; and to him that takes away the cloak, to yield to him the coat also,” strongly, restraining anger. For we do not train our women like Amazons to manliness in war; since we wish the men even to be peaceable. I hear that the Sarmatian women practice war no less than the men; and the women of the Sacæ besides, who shoot backwards, feigning flight as well as the men.

Für ihn üben die Amazonen also Männergleichheit und Kriegshandwerk. (Er sieht diese dabei als nicht deckungsgleich mit den Sarmatinnen an.)

Hier zeigt sich ein wenig das Absurde meines Systems: Dieser Text enthielt wenig, doch ich weise ihm trotzdem eine Nummer zu, damit ich ihn für Eusebius' Tempelfackelei als dritten Beleg aufführen kann.

[Saphir]

Der Gelehrte und Höfling Flavius Philostratos lebte im zweiten und dritten Jahrhundert.

Bei einem seiner Werke handelt es sich um einen fiktiven Dialog über Helden, genannt Heroica.
Einmal vergleicht jemand einen Aspekt der Mysier mit den Amazonen.

He says that even the Mysian women fought from horses alongside the men, just as the Amazons do, and the leader of the cavalry was Hiera, wife of Telephos.

Später - und nach einer Geschichte, in der Achill von einem Händler eine trojanische Sklavin bestellt und am Strand in Stücke reißt - folgt dieser Einschub.

In Troy, however, Achilles did not kill the Amazons, whom some of the poets say came to Troy to fight Achilles. I do not know how it is plausible that, after Priam had fought against them on the side of the Phrygians during the reign of Mygdon, the Amazons later would have come to Ilion as allies. But I think that at the time of the Olympic games in which Leonidas of Rhodes first won the stadion, Achilles destroyed the most warlike group of them, they say, on the island itself.

Zwei Punkte fallen auf:
1.) Das dürfte die erste Quelle gewesen sein, die auf den Umstand hinweist, dass die Amazonen ausgerechnet Troja beistehen, dessen König laut der Ilias in seiner Jugend gegen diese kämpfte.
2.) Achill vernichtete eine Gruppe Amazonen auf Rhodos. Das ist neu.

Es geht direkt weiter:

PHOEN: You have touched upon a great story, vinedresser, and aroused my ears, which otherwise were attentive to your words. It is likely that these matters have come to you as well from Protesilaos.
VINEDR: From this gracious teacher they have come, my guest, but these things are also evident to many of those who sail into the Pontus. Near the inhospitable side of the Pontus, along which the Taurus Mountains extend, there, on the firm land around which the rivers Thermodon and Phasis flow as they come out of the mountains, are said to dwell some Amazons, whom both their father and nurturer, Ares, taught to be engaged in affairs of war and to live a life armed and on horseback. For them a troop of horses enough for the army is tended in marshy meadows. They do not permit men to live in their own country, but, whenever they need children, they go down to the river Halys to do business in the marketplace and to have intercourse with men in any old place. After they return to their haunts and homes, they carry to the borders of the country whatever male children they bear so that those who have begotten them can claim them; those men claim whatever child each happens to find and make them slaves. But the females to whom they give birth they are said to love immediately, to regard as belonging to their own race, and to care for them as is the nature of mothers, except for withholding their milk. They do this because of their battles, so that the children do not become effeminate and their breasts do not hang down. Let us believe that the Amazons' name comes from not being reared at the breast. They nurse the infants with the milk of grazing horses and with honeycombs full of the dew that settles on the reeds of the river like honey.

Endlich existiert wieder einmal eine ordentliche Beschreibung:
* Amazonen leben am Küstenabschnitt zwischen den Flüssen Thermodon und Phasis, eingeschränkt vom Taurus-Gebirge.
* Bei zumindest diesen Amazonen handelt es sich um leibhaftige Töchter der Ares.
* Bei ihnen handelt es sich um Reiterkrieger, und sie hüten Pferde.
* Männer dürfen nicht im Amazonenland leben.
* Sie lösen die Nachwuchsfrage, indem sie Reisen zum Fluss Halys unternehmen und nach Erledigung der Marktgeschäfte Einheimische in alte Gebäude führen.
* Sie schicken männliche Kinder über ihre Grenzen, wo sie von den Bewohnern als Sklaven aufgenommen werden, während sie weibliche grundsätzlich in ihre Reihen aufnehmen.
* Sie brennen sich nicht die Brüste aus, säugen aber auch nicht, sondern nähren ihre Kinder mit Tau und Stutenmilch.

Es geht wie folgt weiter:

Let us leave out of our account the things said by both poets and compilers of myths about these Amazons, since they would not be profitable for the present endeavor. Rather, let their deed concerning the island be told, what sort of thing was done by them, and to what end it was accomplished, since this is part of Protesilaos's accounts. When ships were once more numerous, some sailors and shipbuilders, from among those people who brought merchandise to the Hellespont from the Pontus, were carried off course down toward the left shore of the sea, round about which the women are said to live. After they were captured by the women, for a period of time they were kept locked up, being fed at mangers, so that the women, taking them across the river, could sell them to the Scythian cannibals. But when one of the Amazons took pity on a lad who had been captured along with them because of his youth, and when some erotic attraction resulted, she asked the chief Amazon, who was her sister, not to sell the strangers. After the men were released and had formed close friendships with the women, they now began to speak in their idiom.

Hier geht es also um andere Amazonen, die "auf der linken Seite des Schwarzen Meers und durch einen Fluss von den Skythen entfernt" leben. Diese Amazonen nehmen und verkaufen Sklaven, besitzen eine Hauptfrau, sind zur Freundschaft mit Männern bereit und übernehmen deren Sprache.
Es geht direkt weiter.

While they were recounting their tale about the winter storm and their experiences on the sea, they passed on to their recollection of the sanctuary, since they had sailed to the island not long before, and they told about the wealth in it. Since the strangers were both sailors and shipbuilders, and since that area was also suitable to them for shipbuilding, the Amazons who had come upon them had them make a ship for transporting horses in the hope that they would possess Achilles along with his mares (for once the Amazons dismount from their horses, they are female in gender and women in every respect). Indeed, first the Amazons engaged in rowing and practiced sailing, and so they gathered knowledge of sailing. Getting underway from the outlets of the Thermodon at about springtime, they went forth on fifty ships, I think, to the sanctuary, about two thousand stades away.

... nun werden auch diese Amazonen mit dem Thermodon verbunden, auch wenn das sonst so gar nicht passt. Bei dem angesprochenen Heiligtum auf der Insel dürfte es sich um dieses handeln:

(Aus 745 bis 747)
PHOEN: You speak of an anger that is ruinous and implacable, vinedresser. But tell me what marvel Protesilaos knows about the island in the Pontus, since it was there, I suppose, that he was with Achilles.
VINEDR: It was there, my guest, and he tells the following sorts of stories about it. He says that it is one of the islands in the Pontus more toward its inhospitable side, which those sailing into the mouth of the Pontus put on their left. It is about thirty stades long, but not more than four stades wide; the trees growing on it are poplars and elms, some stand without order, but others already stand in good order around the sanctuary. The sanctuary is situated near the Sea of Maiotis (which, equal in size to the Pontus, flows into it), and the statues in it, fashioned by the Fates, are Achilles and Helen. Indeed, although the act of desire lies in the eyes and poets in song celebrate desire as originating from this, Achilles and Helen, because they had not even been seen by one another, since she was in Egypt and he in Ilion, were the first who started to desire one another by finding their ears to be the origin of their longing for the body.
Because no land under the sun had been fated for them as an abode for the immortal part of their life — (...) — Thetis beseeched Poseidon to send up from the sea an island where they could dwell. After Poseidon had pondered the length of the Pontus and that, because no island lay in it, it was sailed uninhabited, he made Leuke appear, of the size I have described, for Achilles and Helen to inhabit, but also for sailors to stay and set their anchor in the sea. As ruler over everything that is by nature wet, after he also conceived of the rivers Thermodon, Borysthenes, and Istros so that they were carried off into the Pontus by irresistible and continually flowing currents, Poseidon heaped together the sediment from the rivers, which they sweep into the sea starting at their sources in Scythia. He then neatly fashioned an island of just the size I mentioned and set its foundation on the bottom of the Pontus. There Achilles and Helen first saw and embraced one another, and Poseidon himself and Amphitrite hosted their wedding feast, along with all the Nereids and as many rivers and water-spirits as flow into the Sea of Maiotis and the Pontus. They say that white birds live on the island and that these marine birds smell of the sea. Achilles made them his servants, since they furnish the grove for him with the breeze and rain drops from their wings. They do this by fluttering on the ground and lifting themselves off a little bit above the earth. For mortals who sail the broad expanse of the sea, it is permitted by divine law to enter the island, for it is situated like a welcoming hearth for ships. But it is forbidden to all those who sail the sea and for the Hellenes and barbarians from around the Pontus to make it a place of habitation.
Those who anchor near the island and sacrifice must go onboard when the sun sets, so that they do not sleep on its land. If the wind should follow them, they must sail, and if it does not, they must wait in the bay after mooring their ship. Then Achilles and Helen are said to drink together and to be engaged in singing. They celebrate in song their desire for one another, Homer's epics on the Trojan War, and Homer himself.

Es handelt sich also um die Insel Leuke, heute Schlangeninsel genannt, an der Mündung der Donau im Schwarzen Meer liegt, zu Ukraine gehört und seit Beginn des Krieges von Russland besetzt wird. (Yay, Realität.)
Doch weiter an der Amazonen-Textstelle:

When they anchored at the island, they first ordered their Hellespontian guests to cut down the trees with which the sanctuary was adorned round about. But when their axes, driven back against them, went into the head of some, into the neck of others, and all fell near the trees, the Amazons streamed to the sanctuary, crying aloud and driving on their mares. And Achilles, on seeing the heat and terror in them and leaping as he had at the Scamander and in Ilion, inflicted on their mares a terror mightier than a bit, at which they reared up, regarding the women as an unnatural and superfluous burden. The horses took on the habits of wild beasts, and as they fell upon the Amazons, who lay on the ground, the horses thrust their hooves, bristled their manes, and pricked up their ears against them, just like savage lions. They ate the naked forearms of the supine women, and after they had broken open their chests, they devoted themselves to the entrails and gulped them down. Stuffed with human flesh, they stamped around the island and raged, sated with gore. Then, standing on the promontories and seeing the wide surface of the sea, they thought that they had encountered a wide plain and hurled themselves down toward the sea. The Amazons' ships also perished, when a violent wind blew upon them; because they lay at anchor empty and in disarray, they struck against one another and were dashed into pieces, I suppose. Ship sank ship and broke up just as in a naval battle, and just as many rammings of ship against ship, both athwart and prow-to-prow, as helmsmen make while fighting at sea, these all fell upon the ships, which were empty and floating without direction. Because many pieces of wreckage were carried back to the sanctuary and because humans were lying in it still breathing and half-eaten — both scattered human limbs and the pieces of flesh that the mares had spat upon — Achilles easily purified the island, for by drawing in a wave of the sea he both washed these things clean and rinsed them.

Kurz: Es geschieht ein Horrorfilm-Ende.
Wir lernen: Amazonen tragen nackte Unterarme. Ansonsten kennen wir nun eine neue kleine Geschichte.

Philostratos schrieb außerdem Bildbeschreibungen der Werke einer Galerie in einem Vorort Neapels.

Er vergleicht in einem Gemälde weibliche Zentauren mit Amazonen.

And its caves are most beautiful and the springs and the female centaurs beside them, like Naiads if we overlook the horse part of them, or like Amazons if we consider them along with their horse bodies; for the delicacy of their female form gains in strength when the horse is seen in union with it.

Ihm gefällt also die Verbindung weiblicher Zartheit mit der Kraft eines Pferdekörpers.
Er beschreibt daraufhin ein Bild des Theseussohns Hippolytos, bei dem er jede Nennung von dessen Mutter oder deren Herkunft vermeidet, und lässt ein Bild der persischen Königsgattin Rhodoguone als Kämpferin in einem Feldzug gegen die Armenier folgen.

and Rhodogoune is resplendent with scarlet raiment, all except her face; she wears a charming girdle which permits her robe to fall only to her knee, and charming trousers in which designs are woven; her chiton is fastened with brooches set at intervals from shoulder to elbow, the arm showing between the fastenings, though the shoulder is covered; the dress is not that of an Amazon.

Rhodogoune ist also nicht wie eine Amazone gekleidet. Ich nehme an, er meint damit: zuviel Schmuck, zu sehr herausgeputzt, zu wenig "männergleiche" Rüstung.

Das war's. Eine Beschreibung, eine Episode, nett.

[Saphir]

Bei der Orphischen Argonautica handelt es sich um ein episches Gedicht zu der Fahrt der Argonauten, die unter dem Namen des mystischen Dichters und Expeditionsteilnehmers Orpheus überliefert ist. Sie stammt vermutlich erst aus dem fünften nachchristlichen Jahrhundert.

Darin heißt es:

Then the course of the Argo passed over into the great sea. The ship reached Cape Carambis, in which the Thermodon is situated, and the streams of Halys, drawing the salty waves to the wide shore. Sailing lower down from the northern country for a little while, there was situated Themiscyra and Doeas, near which lie the cities of the Amazons. Also situated there, the Chalybes and Tibareni, neighboring peoples living mixed together in the region of the Mossyni.

Vermutlich kannte Pseudo-Orpheus die Argonautika des Apollonios, denn genau wie dieser (und sonst niemand) kennt er Doeas und die Städte der Amazonen, wobei er Themiskyra nicht am Thermodon platziert (und es sich für ihn dabei vielleicht auch nicht um eine Stadt, sondern ein Gebiet handelt).

[Saphir]

Der römische Dichter Gaius Valerius Flaccus aus dem ersten nachchristlichen Jahrhundert nahm sich ebenfalls des Argonautenstoffs an.

“Next are the fields that Thermodon’s stream doth cleave; the famous tribe of Amazons, sprung from great Mars, is there; nor deem those warriors women, but of such a sort and of such might as Enyo triumphant over men, or the Virgin goddess who bears the monstrous Gorgon. Let not then the driving blast carry thy ship to those dreadful shores, what time the troop in arrogant sport fly here and there exultant on dusty steeds, and the ground trembles to their halloing, and their sire incites them to battle with brandished spear. Have not such terror of the race of Chalybes, savage though it be, whose patient husbandry lies in stubborn fields, while ever their fiery dwellings thunder with stricken ores.

Auch hier erfolgt also eine Warnung vor den Amazonen, die als die leiblichen Töchter des Mars angesehen werden; man sähe besser nicht in erster Linie Frauen in ihnen, sondern vergleiche sie eher mit der Kriegsgöttin Enyo oder Artemis. Außerdem drohe bei einer Landung deren wilder Ansturm zu Pferd und mit Speeren.

Their destinies abide unchanged: one only, whose grave was on that shore, send they to view the beloved band. Sthenelus goes forth: as he was when the martial Amazon beheld him and when Alcides buried his comrade, clad in his own armour, even so flashed he forth as he rose from his funeral mound upon the strand; so glistened the waves, as though the mighty sun were lifting his orb into the sky or heaven were crashing cloud on cloud.

Wie bei Apollodor wird hier also das Grab des Herkules-Gefährten angesprochen, der diesen auf den Amazonenkrieg begleitete, und hier scheint er explizit von diesen getötet worden zu sein.

Dann gäbe es noch eine weitere interessante Stelle:

Now let thy mind’s eye range the spreading plains, and see Euryale here trampling the corpses with her wing-swift car, how she exults, the warrior-maid, in her valiant troops, how terrible she is with uplifted battle-axe and targe, dear to me not least among my true-born daughters.”

Bei dem Sprecher handelt es sich um Aietes, König von Kolchis (und Medeas Vater), der in diesem Abschnitt auf die Gefahren seiner Nordgrenze hinweist, die ein Buch später konkret werden. Die Fußnoten dieses Texts bezeichnen jene Euryale als Amazone, und die englische Wikipedia kennt eine Amazone dieses Namens ohne dazugehörigen Artikel. Hier geht es für sie weiter:

Once more tirelessly he charges against he sevenfold circle of the shield; Canthus he follows, for Canthus he clamours, but from behind his comrades drag Canthus away, and once regained set him in the chariot of the maiden Euryale. Forward she flies and the Haemonidae with her, and the whole band attack Gesander alone. He when he sees the new conflict and the maiden’s weapons cries: “Women too, then, are we to fight? ah, for shame!” Then he strikes Lyce near the breast and Thoe where her targe leaves a space; and now was he rushing against Harpe, who scarce yet had begun to draw the bow-horns with the light string, and Menippe, who was pulling up her stumbling horse, when the princess, with redoubled blows of a battle-axe heavy with knobs of gold, cleaves in sunder his head and his helm of wild beast’s hide.

Das klingt schon sehr amazonisch, aber die konkrete Zuordnung bleibt aus.